Okay, first read this quote from a post about the ‘burgeoning’ indie classical movement by Christian Carey over at Sequenza21:
In some critical circles, indie classical has, rightly or wrongly, been under the microscope for making pop into a ‘longhair’ genre, robbing it of its immediacy in favor of overt sophistication. I’d submit that this vantage point doesn’t give enough credit to indie audiences, who seem to be just fine grappling with orchestral arrangements by Pallett and electronic experiments by Animal Collective alike.
Now listen to Lil Jon’s (well, Dave Chappelle doing Lil Jon) response to this statement:
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Does this seem a little backward to anyone? I’ve definitely heard people bitching about this supposed stylistic marriage’s detrimental effects on new music. But what critical circles are complaining about indie rock becoming too sophisticated and cerebral AS A RESULT of the ‘burgeoning’ indie classical movement? (Play that Lil Jon mp3 again.) I think that goes a little far in terms of what kind of ‘influence’ this ‘burgeoning’ movement is having, especially on the genre it is stealing from. Do indie rock kids even talk about this?
Filed in: New Music.
Tags: indie classical
Judd hit the nail on the head, as usual.
Brian – I’ve been writing about classical’s influence on pop, vice versa, and the various meeting grounds between them since 2001. As a composer and performer, I’ve been exploring these meeting grounds too for longer than that.
I’m not so sure I agree with your assessment. Currently, a lot more pop music is including classical signatures than at any time since the beginning of the post-rock movement. What’s more, it seems as if this phenomenon encompasses a far greater swath of musical styles than post-rock did. For a sampling of its diversity, take a look at Andrew Bird, Animal Collective, Owen Pallett, Clogs, Grizzly Bear, and Joanna Newsom.
While I don’t expect you to agree with what I have to say, I’m a little surprised that you took what I wrote about Owen Pallett as an opportunity to respond in an uncivil fashion and as if I was unfamiliar with the topic.
I have a great deal of respect for your music and writing. We’re both members of a very small community and I think it would be good to be in constructive dialog rather than buying into blogosphere bile.
Best,
Christian
Well spoken as always, Judd. Thanks for the comment. I suppose what interests me most is who is gaining from this? Or maybe more accurately, who is gaining *more*. From where I sit, it seems as though it’s been not an entirely one-way street but that the majority of influence has flowed from streams of indie pop/rock into this new classical music movement. I’m not convinced that what we’re doing registers or resonates to the degree we imagine it is or hope it will when you reverse the flow of influence.
Looks like just a definitional misunderstanding or disagreement. Correct me if I’m wrong, all cited parties, but Christian seems to be referring to Owen’s music AS “indie classical”, and is therefore not saying that he would be influenced BY that genre/subgenre/whatever.
In other words, Christian’s not saying (and again, correct me if I’m wrong, please) that people are bitching about the pernicious influence of Nico on Owen (to cite the given examples), but on the pernicious influence of Owen on the broader world of so-called (or not) popular music. I agree with your contention, Brian, that no such thing of the former description is happening, but I don’t think that’s the claim on the table. If it is then I join you in disagreeing with that assessment. Of course, whatever the bitching, it’s all ridiculous, as such bitching about scenes tends to be.
What is much more interesting than assigning causal relationships in either/any direction, for my money, is noting the general convergence on an area where sophistication and visceral engagement not only merge, but conflate – as with the best music from all cultures, of all time. It’s good that the influences are happening in all directions, whether or not that’s actually a new phenomenon, or just a very old one that’s being rebranded as new.
@Christian which critical circles are you talking about? Where have these things been said that you mention?
Hi. I wasn’t getting behind indie classical bashing, nor pop bashing. Far from it! My blog is titled “File Under ?” for a reason; has been for eight years!
A-freaking-men. Also bass-ackwards is the implication that indie classical is more sophisticated than the music its most-likely-not influencing. I was just now listening to Prefuse 73′s last record, and that shit is AMAZING. And people are going to tell me that that’s LESS sophisticated than such LPR-approved fare as “DJ who mixes Mahler w/ phat beats” and “kid who uses protools to cut up George Bush quotes while friend plays marimba”? Give me a break. It’s not that these things shouldn’t mingle, but lets not pretend “sophistication” and, well, skill are the exclusive purview of one genre.